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28 febrero

SEC Subpoenas

SEC chairman Chris Cox yesterday tried to distance himself from the growing controversy over subpoenas sent to journalists in connection with the commission’s probe of possible stock manipulation of Overstock.com, after its President Patrick Byrne said journalists including columnist Herb Greenberg were involved in the alleged scheme.

He stated that neither he nor the SEC’s commissioners nor its head of public affairs nor the general counsel of the agency were aware that the requests for information were sent out, and that in the future, journalists will only be asked to provide information in “extraordinary” circumstances that are approved by the full commission.

            In his statement, however, he left out one important name in the line of control: The SEC’s head of enforcement, Linda Chatman Thomsen. It’s fair to say that the head of the SEC’s enforcement division is the second most powerful person at the SEC after the chairman, and CNBC has learned that before the subpoenas were sent to the journalists, Thomsen approved the move.

Though people at the SEC say she didn’t consult with Cox before hand, Thomsen’s decision is significant. It underscores that at the highest levels of the SEC, journalists are now viewed as fair game. I find it hard to believe that the SEC enforcement staff really thinks that Greenberg and the other journalists, including CNBC’s Jim Cramer, are involved in stock manipulation, but from what I understand, the SEC investigators believe that the journalists have enough information to clear up entire mess, involving whether a stock research firm was in bed with short sellers looking drive down shares of Overstock.

Yesterday, for example, senior SEC people told CNBC that while the subpoenas to the journalists won’t be enforced at this time, the SEC may come back and demand that the journalists answer questions at a later date. Cox has also told Thomsen and the San Francisco office of the SEC that is heading the inquiry that they have his “unflinching” support.

It’s easy to beat up on Patrick Byrne, the head of Overstock who has made the wild claims about the journalists. His company isn’t exactly a blue-chip name in the market, and the very fact that he’s blaming journalists for the company’s problems appear way off the mark. But people at the SEC tell me they care less about whether Overstock is making its earnings projections than they do about the possible market manipulation, namely whether the stock research firm Gradient Analytics was part of a stock manipulation scheme with a prominent short-seller, Rocker Partners.

Both have denied any wrongdoing.

 

Charlie Gasparino - CNBC
27 febrero

A Landmark Victory

            For the past five years since the stock market bubble burst, angry investors have targeted stock brokers like never before. Many of the largest firms on Wall Street have handed over hundreds of millions of dollars to settle lawsuits and arbitration claims that their brokers duped unsuspecting brokers to buy now beaten down stocks during the bubble years. The wave of investor anger has unleashed unprecedented scrutiny of brokers themselves; some of the top brokers during the bubble have been forced out of the business for recommending unsuitable stocks to their clients.

            But one former high-flying broker decided to fight back, taking the unusual action of filing a defamation suit against an attorney for clients who said he was at the center of a scheme to rip them off. Even more unusual was last week’s result: A jury in Arizona ruled in favor of the broker, Philip Spartis, once one of the top producers in the Salomon Smith Barney system, ordering attorney Stuart Goldberg, regarded as among the leading plaintiff lawyers in the country, to pay a $1 million defamation award.

            In all my years covering Wall Street, I have never heard of a broker winning a libel case against an attorney who was representing small investors who claim the broker ripped them off. I have heard of cases where brokers have tried to file similar cases, but most have been laughed out of court. So last week, I did some digging, interviewed a few top attorneys, including a guy named David Robbins who considered among the best in the claimants bar and they all confirmed my suspicions. Robbins called the ruling “unprecedented,” and it may spur other brokers to take similar action if they feel wronged by investors who say they lost money, or their lawyers who in the heat of battle go public with their complaints.

            Spartis’ claim filed in June 2003 in Arizona State Superior Court in Maricopa County stems from some public comments Goldberg made on his website about Spartis’ handling of the brokerage accounts of employees of WorldCom who held stock options. On the website, Goldberg attacked Spartis for recommending that the WorldCom executives cash out of the options, hold on to the stock, and borrow money from the firm to pay expenses. According to Spartis’ defamation suit, Goldberg said Spartis was part of a “boiler room” operation. He said Spartis and the brokers who handling the accounts were “ill equipped, ill trained and unprepared” for the WorldCom accounts. The suit also says that Goldberg and the other brokers began recording some conversations with clients, whom he called “despicable” and the acts in many states would be considered “criminal behavior.”

The market strategy advocated by Spartis obviously proved disastrous as shares of WorldCom fell from a high of $70 to just pennies on the dollars as it fell into bankruptcy amid a massive accounting fraud. Spartis, meanwhile, is the subject of an NYSE probe into his brokerage activities, and Salomon Smith Barney has paid $1 million to the NYSE to settle charges stemming from the activities in the branch office, which was located in Atlanta. Meanwhile, Salomon Smith Barney has settled cases with investors, who said Spartis misled them.

But Spartis has done much better in court. Spartis has consistently claimed that the options strategy wasn’t his, but the firms; he was merely pushing a strategy advocated by former top Salomon Smith Barney analyst Jack Grubman who also urged investors to hold on the WorldCom stock nearly to the day it filed for bankruptcy protection. Spartis claimed in court that Goldberg’s defamation included linking him with Grubman’s biased research. And that the taping idea wasn’t his, but was started by Salomon itself.

            All this played out in an Arizona state court where a jury last week apparently agreed with Spartis, ordering Goldberg to pay $1 million--$400,000 in compensatory damages and $600,000 in punitive damages. Goldberg didn’t return telephone calls, and I spoke to his attorney who declined our request to come on air for an interview. We will have Spartis on air later in the morning.
 
Charles Gasparino - CNBC
24 febrero

Playing By The Rule

The New York Mercantile Exchange heading toward an all-out civil war, as two of the NYMEX’s top floor traders are being ousted from their positions on the exchange’s board of directors, CNBC has learned.

            The traders, Eric Bolling, a frequent guest on CNBC and Kevin McDonnell have been told that they have to vacate their positions on the NYMEX board in the coming weeks, the NYMEX confirms. The stated rationale: A little known rule enforced by the, the CFTC, that says that traders with more than $5,000 in fines cannot serve on the NYMEX board.

            What’s got so many floor traders up in arms is that this rule is rarely enforced.  A NYMEX spokeswoman says no board member has been forced off the NYMEX board since 2001, and she can recall only one leaving since the rule was put in place in 1993. And at least in the case of Bolling and McDonnell, the alleged transgressions are nothing more than record and book keeping discrepancies, not hard core rule violations.

            So, why the change?  Floor traders say its part of a broader move by the NYMEX to limit the power of the floor as the NYMEX moves toward changing its management and converting to an electronic trading model. As we’ve reported, current Chairman Mitchell Steinhause is likely to leave in the coming weeks replaced by Vice Chairman Richard Schaeffer once the deal with private equity firm General Atlantic Partners is completed. GA is said to be one of the advocates of more electronic trading at the exchange.

            The battle at the NYMEX is similar to the one at the New York Stock Exchange, which also began implementing more electronic trading through its acquisition of Archipelago, which is majority owned by General Atlantic Partners. The NYSE’s move led to a lawsuit, which has since been settled, but the deep scars remain.

            The battle lines are being drawn at the NYMEX as well. Both Bolling and McDonnell are two of the most prominent floor members on the NYMEX board and strong advocates of the open outcry system, where humans instead of computers match buyers and sellers of futures contracts.

            The NYMEX says it’s now enforcing the rule because it has to; the CFTC told the NYMEX in February that $5,000 limit was in effect despite an earlier interpretation that allowed the NYMEX to boot board members on a case-by-case basis. We hear both Bolling and McDonnell are outraged as are many other floor traders who believe that the entire matter is nothing more than an attempt to limit floor-member participation on the board, and push through the electronic trading as quickly as possible, which will reduce the number of traders on the NYMEX floor.

            Bolling had no comment; McDonnell didn’t return a telephone call for comment.
 
Charles Gasparino - CNBC
23 febrero

The Talent Contest

One of the biggest issues facing firms that merge is whether the cultural differences between both sides are so great that talented people just pick up and leave. I’ve seen that in countless brokerage mergers over the years, and the threat of firms losing the best and brightest has forced many investment banks to shell out huge retention bonuses, largely out of proportion to what even the most talented people are worth.

Right now, Merrill Lynch and money manager BlackRock are facing those same issues as they complete Merrill’s purchase of about a 50% stake in the money-management powerhouse. Last week we spoke to CEO Larry Fink who said he had verbal commitments from his top people to say.

But Fink isn’t taking any chances. CNBC has learned that he is now working a new plan to keep key people in his team from jumping ship. Remember, under the terms of the deal, Merrill bought its stake in Blackrock by transferring its entire asset management division, some $550 million in assets and hundred of people to BlackRock. Sources tell CNBC that Fink’s first order of business in the next few week will be coming up with a retention plan to lock those people in for four or five years.

After that, Fink will be working on his own people. People at BlackRock say that despite the verbal commitments made by his senior people to stay, Fink isn’t taking any chances. That’s because the financial incentives of senior BlackRock people to stay end after January 1, 2007. But CNBC has learned that Fink is now working on a plan to keep those people in place for five years after 2007.

One of the big unknowns here is just how much BlackRock will be shelling out to keep these people in place. People at the company say that there won’t be the huge retention bonuses you’ve seen at other firms during mergers (The massive bonuses shelled out to DLJ execs during its merger with CSFB back in 1999 come to mind). Instead Fink will be developing a long-term incentive plan, where executives get paid a combination of cash and stock that vests over a five-year period, at least that’s the way it’s being envisioned now.

Another big question is how all this effects the guy at the top, Larry Fink. Fink has many incentives to stay, not the least that he’s now running a $1 trillion money management firm and owns 1.8 million shares of BlackRock. But according to people inside the company, he will be covered by the same plan.

 

Charles Gasparino - CNBC

22 febrero

A Single Arm Of The Law

For years, the system of self-regulation that polices the big Wall Street firms has been filled with controversy as the both self-regulators, the New York Stock Exchange and the National Association of Securities Dealers, have come under intense criticism for missing the stock market scandals of the 1990s. Even with all the flack heaped on the brokerage regulators during this time, the federal agency that regulates the industry, the Securities and Exchange Commission has sat by and left the system alone.

But that might be changing. Senior officials at the SEC are leaning toward endorsing a system that essentially consolidates the NASD and the NYSE's regulatory systems into a single regulator, in what would be the biggest change in Wall Street's regulatory structure in about 30 years.

It's pretty difficult to find someone on Wall Street who supports the current system of dual regulation. The Wall Street firms say the duplication is too costly; the firms must meet with two sets of regulators on a regular basis for examinations and investigations. Both the NYSE and the NASD have their own investigatory staffs and they are often in competition to show who's tougher, meaning that the firms can find themselves answering subpoenas from two agencies over the same alleged transgression.

Now I’ve always been of the opinion that small investors should be wary of anything that Wall Street supports. But this may be a case when both sides find common ground. Over the years, as the NASD and NYSE competed over who is doing a better job cracking down on small-time scandals, they’ve missed the big stuff like conflicted research, and a host of other frauds. One of the reasons why the stock market scandals of the 1990s were able to reach such epic proportions is because the self-regulators at the NYSE and the NASD were simply asleep at the switch. They were supposed to be monitored by the SEC, but the commission is so stretched for personnel it just didn't have the manpower to keep adequate tabs on the self-regulators and monitor the securities markets at the same time.

The concept of a single regulator is supported by the NASD as well as the Securities Industry Association, Wall Street's main trade group, which has been lobbying the SEC and its Chairman Chris Cox in recent months to change the system.

So what's keeping the single regulator from happening? Apparently, the New York Stock Exchange, which is in the middle of becoming a public company with an upcoming IPO. The NYSE opposition is long standing; former Chairman Richard Grasso blocked attempts by the Nasdaq then run by Frank Zarb to join their regulatory units and save their member firms money. Grasso feared that the NYSE's floor specialists would be regulated by NASD officials who would put the stock exchange at a competitive disadvantage.

The NYSE is using a similar argument these days, though they're couching it differently. Spokesman Richard Adamonis says that the NYSE isn't against a "joint venture" of some kind, but there are "unique attributes" about the NYSE and its rules that makes it difficult to have a single regulator to do its job properly.

 

Charles Gasparino - CNBC
21 febrero

The Business Council At Boca

Here are some Pics From the Business Council we attended last week!
 
Double Click to enlarge
 
Enjoy!

"Reed" Between The Lines

               If you listen to New York AG Eliot Spitzer you would think that he had no choice but to file civil charges against former NYSE Chairman Dick Grasso over his enormous pay package. Spitzer has said time and again that a New York law stipulates that the pay of officials who run non-profits like the NYSE must be “reasonable,” and when John Reed, the former Citigroup chief who replaced Grasso in 2003, called on him to file charges against Grasso, by handing him a report on the pay controversy prepared by NYSE attorney Dan Webb he was duty bound to do so.

            He was recently on “Mad Money” and here’s what he told Jim Cramer about why he brought the case:

            “I had a duty to bring it when John Reed, who was then the CEO/Chairman of the board of the NYSE...walked into my office and gave me the Webb report and said Eliot our board doesn’t want to handle this, you have to. And I read the report and we did our investigation and we determined as a matter of the law we could not walk away from this. We tried to settle, I can’t talk more about it.”

            But Reed has recently put a different spin on the issue. In a deposition he gave last week to attorneys for Grasso and Spitzer, Reed said the decision to bring the case was Spitzer’s, and not his, and while he felt it was his responsibility to share the Webb report with regulators including Spitzer he would have been just as happy if Spitzer had dropped the report in the “waste basket.”

            Now some caveats: I do not have a copy of the deposition. What I’m reporting here comes from people who heard Reed’s deposition, so it’s impossible to know all the context of his remarks. Reed may have a good reason to be softening his stance against Grasso because the former NYSE chief is suing him for defamation over some allegedly negative statements he made to a reporter about Grasso just after he resigned as NYSE chair in 2003.

            But the substance of what I’m reporting comes from representatives of Ken Langone, former head of the NYSE Comp Committee who was also sued by Spitzer, Grasso and Reed. In fact, the Reed representative confirmed that it would be completely accurate to describe Reed’s rationale when it came to whether Spitzer should bring the case as “agnostic.” He also confirmed the “waste basket” statement.

            Now we’ll learn more about this in the coming days so we’ll get a full understanding of what was said, but if this does turn out to be what Reed really meant, I think it pokes another hole in Spitzer’s case. It essentially removes one of his key rationales for spending so much time and state taxpayer money filing charges against Grasso—that he had to do it because the head of a non-profit that he regulates asked him to do so.

            Spitzer’s office didn’t return telephone calls last night for comment.

 

Charles Gasparino - CNBC

09 febrero

BlackRock Deal Offline

What better signal that the buyout talks between Morgan Stanley and BlackRock are dead than yesterday’s announcement by Morgan that Zoe Cruz has been appointed co president of the firm.

Cruz is one of the most controversial senior executives at Morgan Stanley. She’s a long time Morgan Stanley alumni and currency-trading expert who was promoted by CEO John Mack in years past to run the currency department then the bond department. After Mack was ousted from the firm following its merger with Dean Witter she then became one of the key lieutenants of the firm’s new CEO Phil Purcell, and was widely regarded as a turncoat with her old Morgan Stanley colleagues.

Following Mack’s return to the top job last summer many of the top executives who left protesting Purcell’s management,  people like Vikram Pandit, John Havens cited Cruz continued presence in the firm’s management ranks as reason for not returning. Mack, however, gave her a title of acting co president, a signal that he was looking to bring in some fresh management talent at the top of the firm, and possibly woo back the old guard who left.

Indeed, one of the main reasons why Mack was so hot on having Morgan buy the BlackRock money-management firm was to acquire talent, namely BlackRock’s CEO Larry Fink and his management team. If that deal had gone through, sources tell CNBC, it would have been Fink as Mack’s No. 2, meaning in all likelihood that Cruz would have been forced to find another job at the firm.

But with the BlackRock deal all but dead, Morgan decided to end months of speculation about Cruz’s future and make her role as co-president official. With Cruz’s future at the firm secure, Morgan can forget about attracting the vast majority of those top executives who left. Morgan has given a powerful market tool to Joe Perella, the former banker who is starting is own investment banking firm and is continuing to poach talent from Morgan.

A Morgan-BlackRock deal may be dead, but speculation continues to grow that BlackRock may be looking for another merger partner. Around 70% of BlackRock’s stock is controlled by PNC Bank, and Fink has grown weary of the relationship. People who know Fink say it’s typical of him to pursue several deals at once, and that’s why BlackRock’s stock continues to remain high despite our reporting that the Morgan deal is dead.

People at Morgan, meanwhile, say that Mack continues to be on the look out for another major deal of some kind.
 
Charles Gasparino - CNBC
08 febrero

More Depositions Scheduled

New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer and former New York Stock Exchange Chairman Richard Grasso are scheduled to meet in court sometime this summer or in the fall to argue the “reasonableness” of Grasso’s $139.5 million pay package that led to his dismissal as NYSE chief three years ago.

Before the court battle takes place, both sides continue to take depositions from some of Corporate America’s biggest stars that had served on the NYSE board during the Grasso era. Last week, we aired some of the video taped depositions of people like Goldman Sachs CEO Hank Paulson, Former AOL Time Warner Chief Gerald Levin, and Sirius CEO Mel Karmazin.

Lawyers for Spitzer and Grasso will be deposing former board members Madeline Albright, Leon Panetta, and H. Carl McCall and others in the coming weeks. CNBC has learned that Grasso’s attorneys are even debating whether to call former SEC Chairman William Donaldson in for testimony, since he launched an investigation into the pay package when news first broke.

But one of the biggest names in the entire case is scheduled to give his deposition next Thursday. John Reed, the former CEO of Citicorp, Co-CEO of Citigroup, took over as Chairman of the stock exchange when Grasso resigned in 2003. He resigned last year from the NYSE, but Reed may be more responsible for the current legal standoff than any single figure in the Grasso-Spitzer battle.

When Reed took over back in 2003, most people on Wall Street thought he would work to restore the NYSE’s battered image and keep a low profile. Instead, he immediately went on the offensive against Grasso, publicly demanding that Grasso return his compensation. When that didn’t work, he hired a former federal prosecutor Dan Webb to investigate the pay package, and when Grasso still refused to buckle, he turned over his findings to Spitzer calling on the AG to press a case against Grasso under New York’s not-for-profit law, which says that the compensation of any officer of a not-for-profit, like the NYSE, must be “reasonable” and commensurate with duties performed.

Even Spitzer has said on numerous occasions that he felt duty-bound to file the civil case against Grasso, and former NYSE board member Ken Langone, who as compensation committee chairman was responsible for many of Grasso’s big paydays, because of Reed.

And it’s not just the Spitzer-Grasso case that Reed will have to provide information for; Grasso has also counter sued Reed for defamation over some of the statements he made against Grasso when he resigned in 2003 that Grasso says violated a non-disparagement clause in his contract.

Grasso’s attorneys are expected to press Reed on the reasons why he went after Grasso, and why he chose to hand the case to Spitzer and not take legal action on his own.  These are many of the same questions Wall Street CEOs are asking as they spend countless hours giving testimony in a case they all wish would go away.

 

Charles Gasparino - CNBC
07 febrero

Electronic Trading At NYMEX?

The Board of the New York Mercantile Exchange is scheduled to meet tonight to put the final touches on its deal with private equity firm General Atlantic Partners, which is looking to buy 10% stake in the world’s largest futures exchange, a precursor to a public offering later in the year.

            But another item on the agenda, people at the NYMEX tell CNBC, will be to discuss a plan to offer for the first time in NYMEX’s history a fully functional electronic trading component in its oil and gas futures contracts.

            Even as other exchanges, like the NYSE have moved toward an electronic trading model, the NYMEX has hung on to its “open outcry” trading system, where traders roam the floor of the exchange bidding on contracts. At the moment, the NYMEX has some electronic trading, but it accounts for a relatively small percentage of the overall volume, and the leadership of the NYMEX seemed unwilling to embrace electronic trading in a major way.

            But people at the NYMEX tell CNBC that all changed abruptly last week, when the Intercontinental Exchange last week encroached on the NYMEX’s turf, and offered oil contracts that traded electronically. The move sent a chill through the upper management of the exchange, which faces a seat holder revolt over its management practices, as the ICE future produced strong results in just its first day of trading.

            The plan, at least for now, is to offer what NYMEX seat holders say is “side-by-side” electronic trading. What that means, no one really knows at the moment, but the plan, is to offer investors a choice of whether to trade electronically or through the open outcry system.

            A spokeswoman for the NYMEX wouldn’t comment specifically on the matter, other than to say the NYMEX is evaluating all its options, which suggests, at least to me, that management at the exchange really doesn’t have a clue what’s going to happen. The NYMEX is a fairly unruly place, comprised of warring factions. At the moment, there is a growing movement to oust current management, including the NYMEX’s chairman, Mitchell Steinhause, which could delay implementation of electronic trading even further into the future.

            The entire board of the NYMEX, meanwhile, is up for re-election, and adding some additional uncertainty to the who will make the final cut is a new regulation handed down by the CFTC which prevents any board member with $5,000 or more in fines from serving another term. From what I understand, that will mean at least two current board members will not be able to serve another term.

 

Charles Gasparino - CNBC

02 febrero

Click Fraud

Google has been grabbing headlines not just for its unbelievable stock price, or its founders Sergey and Larry rubbing elbows in Davos last week with the likes of Bono and Becky. In recent weeks, a slew of analysts have raised the issue that the company’s business model faces a major headache over something called “click fraud,” which they say has inflated profits and in the process Google’s stock price.

But CNBC has learned that the headache could get worse in the not so distant future now that the “click fraud” issue has now caught the eye of regulators at the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Over 90% of Google’s revenues come when people click on ads that run on its website. The more people click, the more money advertisers must pay Google. These clicks give Google its cache; Google attracts the more advertisers than any other search engine because it touts itself as receiving more clicks than any of its competitors. But analysts say a significant number of those clicks come from fraudsters-who are paid by one company to drive up the advertising costs of its competitors.

It is, of course, impossible to put a number on the click fraud problem. No one, not even Google, really tracks it, so it’s impossible to know how much of Google’s or any search engine’s revenues are improperly inflated.

That’s likely to change. People at the Securities and Exchange Commission tell CNBC that click fraud is definitely on the commission’s radar screen. The commission’s accounting regulation division is keenly aware of the problem and is deciding what to do next.

We need to be clear here: There is no formal or informal investigation of click fraud at any major search engine company, whether it’s Google, Yahoo or Microsoft. But with so much in the news, it’s only a matter of time before the commission takes a closer look to determine how much of a problem it is for these companies and whether or not it’s improperly inflating revenues. 

Google declined to comment about the SEC’s interest. But the company says revenues attributed to click fraud are small. Even so, the company said in statement that it “takes this issue extremely seriously.” Google says it has software to screen out invalid clicks and those advertisers charged for invalid clicks receive refunds.

 

Charlie Gasparino - CNBC

01 febrero

Morgan Stanley/BlackRock Update

Morgan Stanley’s bid to buy a majority stake in money-management powerhouse BlackRock has hit a significant snag over price and it looks like the deal isn’t going to happen, at least anytime soon.

Negotiations, first reported by CNBC two weeks ago, apparently broke down in recent days as top people at Morgan Stanley including CEO John Mack determined that any deal would be too costly, somewhere around $8 billion to $10 billion, people tell CNBC.

Under the proposed terms, Morgan would buy a majority stake in BlackRock, which would become an asset-management subsidiary of the big Wall Street firm. If the deal went through Morgan would have earned fees on some $420 billion in assets, but also would have won some significant management talent. BlackRock CEO Larry Fink is considered one of the best managers in the business, and the theory was that when Morgan completed the purchase, Fink would become a senior member of Mack’s team.

People both at BlackRock and Morgan Stanley say while the deal may be dead for now, it may not be dead forever. Mack and Fink remain friends and would still like to do a deal at some point. In fact, talks may indeed rekindle if valuations of asset-management companies come down to a more reasonable level, people at Morgan Stanley said.

Ironically one potential sticking point in the deal didn’t turn out to be a sticking point at all. BlackRock trades at the NYSE under the symbol BLK, but PNC Bank holds 70% of BlackRock’s stock and the early betting was that PNC wouldn’t sell its shares given BlackRock’s recent stellar earnings and the sharp increases in BlackRock’s share prices.

The breakdown of the talks does have major implications for Morgan Stanley and Mack, who took over the firm last year after the ouster of Phil Purcell. People at Morgan say Mack is still in the hunt for a major deal, something where he can buy both people and assets. But Mack has not been able to stem the tide of top-level managers leaving the firm or bring back those top executives like Vikram Pandit and John Havens who left protesting Purcell’s management style. Other Morgan executives may be ready to bolt as well to join the new investment-banking firm created by former Morgan stars Joe Perella and Terry Meguid.
 
Charles Gasparino – CNBC